Furry Writers' Guild Forum

2014 Debate Thread

This is the official debate thread for the 2014 FWG Presidential Election, and this thread will be open to posts from now through May 14.

The two candidates are the incumbent, Sean Rivercritic, and myself. Anyone with questions for us to answer is free to post them here while the thread is open, and you may direct questions to either of us or both of us.

If you don’t have an account on the forum and don’t wish to have one (or if you would prefer your question to remain anonymous), you can send your question to election@anthroaquatic.com, and the election officer(s) will post your question here. You may also reply to the FWG’s FA journal (www.furaffinity.net/journal/5722359/), and someone will copy your question into the forums. Please keep track of the forums as this will be where the questions will be answered.

Also, before posting questions, if you haven’t read the candidates’ campaign statements, please take a few minutes to look them over, as your question might already be addressed there:

Sean’s announcements:
Part One: http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/5673693/
Part Two: http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/5684828/
Part Three: http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/5713403/

My announcement:

Sean’s Edit: Added that those with questions may reply to the FWG page’s journal on FA

Thanks a bunch for posting this! Yes, please ask away. I’ll be cross-posting this to FA and twitter in the morning.

@PT – You were a driving force in the call for guild elections. During that discussion, you stated that the point was not that anyone wanted “the job right now” (i.e. immediate authority over the guild), yet here we find you attempting to assume authority, and considering that this is the first opportunity to do so since the call went out, it’s as close to immediate as possible. How do you account for this?

@Both – What are some good reasons to vote for you and what are some bad ones?

And I maintain that. As I said back then, I feel it’s important to have an election system in place, as part of running the guild in a professional manner, even if the incumbent is running unopposed. It’s not about how many people seemingly want to run at any given time, it’s about having a structured process in place so at least people are able to run.

In other words, it’s still the principle of the thing, and I believe it’s an important principle that the membership of an organization should be able to elect its leaders.

yet here we find you attempting to assume authority, and considering that this is the first opportunity to do so since the call went out, it's as close to immediate as possible. How do you account for this?

I personally disagree with the direction in which Sean wants to take the guild, based on his previous plans and campaign announcements, and I want to provide the members with an alternative, and I believe I’m qualified to do the job. So I’m running.

@Both -- What are some good reasons to vote for you and what are some bad ones?

Good reasons: Because you agree with the vision and plans for the guild that I laid out in my campaign announcement, and believe that I have the skills to make those things happen. (By the way, a more easily readable version of that journal entry is posted here on Weasyl.)

Bad reasons: Um… Because you’re my friend, or something like that, I suppose…? I certainly don’t want people voting for me based solely on name recognition or anything along those lines, though it’s probably a little egotistical to assume I even have name recognition. :slight_smile:

I think that, while some may not think that the direction I would like to take the guild in will keep 100% of the traditional values that it was created with, I believe change is absolutely necessary to keep this guild not just alive, but thriving. With my implementation of a more inclusive member system as well as a council to help run specialized items, along with other points I’ve mentioned in my campaign announcements (see original thread post), we can achieve that goal.

The bad reasons are ones that everyone has seen since the day I took over. I work a LOT of hours and don’t always have time to keep up with some of the items that were already in place when the guild began, such as items on the main page. I also have little to no skills with web development. This, I feel, can be corrected by the implemenation of the council.

@Sean - How does your plan to “open the guild to all” increase membership when it essentially doesn’t change the system the guild already has in place, other than calling anyone who has joined the forum a guild member? How do you think the members of the guild feel about giving membership to those who have not been published yet and merely tacking on “Advanced” onto their membership?

@PT - Sean has opened up the forums and helped bring non-members and members together through that aspect. Speaking from the prospective of a non-guild member, we see very little action or involvement of those who are members of the guild. Granted there is the member-only section of the forum, but other than a handful of members who do communicate on the public section of this board, it feels like a large majority of the members are not active in the guild itself. What would you do to involve those members back with the guild and help increase their presence to non-guild members?

@PT – Please excuse my revisiting the same subject, it would seem I was unclear last time. To boil it down: did you, at the time you were calling for guild elections, intend to run?

@PT – If elected, will you alter things in order to enforce your notion of professional behavior on others?

Actually, the previous forums were also open to non-members and members. There eventually became some technical issues that, at least as I understand it now, apparently kept people from being able to access the forums, which is something I wasn’t fully aware of until not long before Sean took over management of the guild.

but other than a handful of members who do communicate on the public section of this board, it feels like a large majority of the members are not active in the guild itself. What would you do to involve those members back with the guild and help increase their presence to non-guild members?

First, obviously neither I nor anybody else president can force current members to be more active. There are always going to be members who either don’t have time to participate or, for whatever reason, are unwilling or unable to participate. Second, the furry writing community is hardly a cohesive one. It’s made up of a lot of small groups, and although five or six years ago I might have spoken in idealistic terms about trying to bring everybody together, I now know that’s probably unrealistic. On the other hand, it’s been pointed out, fairly, that there isn’t a great deal for members to do other than have their bio on the members’ page (which does have some merit) and vote in the Coyotls.

Any organization like this walks something of a tightrope between encouraging new members and serving the current ones, but I feel the emphasis needs to be serving the membership – finding out what members’ needs and goals are and, guided as much by that as possible, finding opportunities to help members promote themselves and their work, and creating projects that will help them in their goals. One of the biggest things that will help is having more communication with, and feedback from, the membership as a whole – preferably through an email list, something sent directly to them instead of being posted on a forum that, as you point out, a lot of them don’t regularly visit. If we can find good, practical ways to provide more value to the members – things that you can only benefit from by attaining membership – then it seems to me that that in itself will encourage membership.

As far as increasing their presence to non-guild members, the main place for that interaction to happen is in the forums, as well as through the mentorship program. I’m not part of that program right now and don’t have access to those forums, so I honestly don’t know whether the mentorship program is working well or somewhat or not at all – but if it’s working I’d like to keep it going, and if it isn’t, I’d like to either figure out how to fix it or scrap it entirely in favor of something else.

All that said, I’m going to be honest: I really can’t promise to get more of the current members active. No one can, of course. In any organization or project that requires more than one person, there are always going to be some members who are more active and involved and willing to participate and sacrifice their time and energy for others, and there are always going to be others who can’t do those things or choose not to. That’s true with writers’ organizations, homeowners’ associations, churches, what have you. All I can promise is to do my best to lead the horses to water. :slight_smile:

At the time I was calling for guild elections, I had no guarantee that any elections were even going to take place, so whether or not I personally intended to run was kind of a moot point until elections were later officially announced as something that was definitely going to happen. Until then, there was no point in me deciding one way or the other.

As I’ve said, I called for elections and argued in favor of them simply and solely because I think the membership of the guild should elect its leaders. My concerns have been about having a fair process for transitioning leadership, not about who’s holding or seeking that leadership at any given time.

@PT -- If elected, will you alter things in order to enforce your notion of professional behavior on others?

I’m not sure what you mean. As I said in my campaign announcement, I don’t intend to change the membership structure, and I think any changes to that structure in the future should have to be approved by the members. As far as my “notion of professional behavior,” again, I’m not sure what you mean there. Certainly I think professional behavior means letting the membership have more of a say than they have previously, and basic things like treating each other civilly on the forums and such. If you can clarify the question a bit, in terms of specific things you’re concerned about me possibly doing or not doing, I’d be happy to have another go. :slight_smile:

I would have preferred a “yes” or “no” answer to the first, but alright. As for the second…

Certainly. I refer to this section on professionalism here:

“[…] we take the guild and its responsibilities seriously, and we act in ways that foster respect for the guild and its members and furry writing in general (inside and outside the fandom).”

This sounds good, but it’s murky and frankly I get an ominous vibe off of it. Who is to be the arbiter of what constitutes appropriate behavior and by what criteria will they define it? Will there be censures and/or other penalties? If Dandin shows up for a writers’ panel drunk and throws up all over the microphone (this is inevitable), what happens? To whom can he appeal? Will lolcat-speak result in a ban? What about 1337? Are we going to have to wear ties to bed?

Those are rhetorical and silly, obviously. What I’m concerned about are potential changes to the spirit, not necessarily the letter, of the sort of “code” we already have in place, vague though it is. To put it another way, will you, if elected, attempt to police the behavior of guild members beyond the standards already in place?

Well, my honest answer is “At that time, I hadn’t decided whether or not to run if elections were held.” You can decide whether that constitutes a yes or a no or a maybe.

Certainly. I refer to this section on professionalism here:

“[…] we take the guild and its responsibilities seriously, and we act in ways that foster respect for the guild and its members and furry writing in general (inside and outside the fandom).”

To put it another way, will you, if elected, attempt to police the behavior of guild members beyond the standards already in place?

That was possibly poor wording on my part. I was attempting to define what “professionalism” means and doesn’t mean to me (mostly what it doesn’t mean), but I don’t mean to give the impression that I’m interested in policing anyone’s personal behavior – at least, not beyond the sort of policing one would expect, say, on a forum or at a convention. In other words, if you come here to the forums to troll and start flamewars, you’re going to be banned, and if you’re a member and keep creating those kinds of problems, it’s not impossible that your membership might be revoked.

At this time, the “Join the Guild” page on the website states:

“All memberships will be approved or revoked at the discretion of the site owner.”

I would assume that to mean that the president would have the same power. All the same, I’m not interested in banning anyone from membership except in a case of truly egregious, offensive, or unethical behavior. I can’t be more specific than that because I can’t think of specific situations that would absolutely deserve an outright ban, but it would have to be pretty bad. And I hope it never comes up, because I’d like to think we’re all adults and can govern ourselves reasonably. Even when alcohol’s involved. :slight_smile:

And no, Lolcat won’t get you banned. Doge might, though. 8)

Alright, thank you. 

My plan is to make the guild more about developing the writing community itself rather than promoting work by the select few active guild members and acting as an informational website. By opening the guild up to current non-members, it will help give the guild a more inviting feel. This does stem from the fact that a lot of furs see the group as elitist (though if the guild members (and I mean more than just three or four of them) made an effort to help develop non-members and help their writing on a more regular basis, this probably wouldn’t be as much of an issue).

As to your second question, why does a writing guild have to cater only to those who are published? The guild’s mission statement is “to support, inform, elevate, and promote quality writing and writers of anthropomorphic fiction”. How is the guild currently doing that? It’s not.
It’s not supporting or elevating the furry writing community, and my mentor/mentee program showed that. The underwhelming response I got from guild members surprised even myself. I expect to only get a few to volunteer as mentors, but I didn’t expect to have so few members even acknowledge the program. The whole point of the program was the support and develop those that want to become better writers.
How is it informing? By having a bit of information on a website. I do agree that this is very important and is something I wish to work more with in the future. But when very few people are being lead to it or have any backing by actual members that the information is valid, it’s not serving its purpose well.
It’s not promoting because a LARGE portion of the guild members don’t post their work or just plain aren’t writing anymore. Is it really worth all the effort when promoting the same dozen people over and over again? Not really. I agree that these writers deserve to be promoted because they do produce quality work. However a small writing group can promote the work just as well as the guild can right now.

So to give a direct answer to your second question? I don’t believe it should be a huge issue (whether or not some think it is or not) because these basic members aren’t getting anything more than they were when they weren’t a member. As has been stated before, it’s essentially a PR move. The guild right now is essentially, to compare it to the business world, hanging a job over someone’s head and saying that they must have X amount of qualifications to apply for the job, but not really helping in getting them those qualifications. We’re giving them an internship and building up the skills they need to get that job they want.
What will they think of having “advanced” tacked onto their membership? I can’t say that for sure. I myself will only be eligible for a regular guild membership when the anthology comes out, so it’s not like I’ve had membership in the guild for a long time. That question would be best asked to the individual members.

How little response that has been shown from a combination of this debate thread, its posts on FA and Twitter, and both of our campaign statements gives me an idea of how much the writers of this community are concerned with the guild’s future. This goes for both members and non-members. It shows me that there’s something seriously wrong with the system in place. It may have been something that worked well in the beginning, but it certainly is not now.

It may also be that the members who are going to vote feel they already know enough (or are learning enough) about both of us from what we’ve posted, and they don’t necessarily have anything else specific to ask, so there’s no need for them to respond to our campaign statements and this thread.

Just because people aren’t asking things doesn’t automatically mean they’re not paying any attention.

Also, just wanted to respond to this:

The guild right now is essentially, to compare it to the business world, hanging a job over someone's head and saying that they must have X amount of qualifications to apply for the job, but not really helping in getting them those qualifications.

Offering a up-to-date list of open markets, paying and nonpaying, where they can send their work, as well as information about the fandom’s publishers all in one place, doesn’t help them potentially get published?

Having a forum where they can post work for critique, or get advice, or ask questions of other writers doesn’t potentially help them get published?

The guild does offer resources, right now, to help writers get published and earn membership. But at some point the burden isn’t on the guild to provide more resources for potential members, it’s on those writers themselves to take the initiative and use them.

Offering a list of where to send things doesn’t really help them get published. It gives them a place to get published. For writers that have a bit of experience that’s fine, but for new writers who lack experience and knowledge, it doesn’t really help them. Sure they can post around on the forums asking for beta readers and ask advice, but if none of these writers feel like they are welcome, then how is that going to help? The resources are only as good as the people who feel comfortable using them.

It’s been said several times on here: most non-members don’t join the forums because they feel like they are for members only. I’m sure a lot of them don’t even come to look for that reason. No matter how many people that watch the guild account on FA that I welcome and offer to join the forums, if they don’t feel comfortable doing so because they think they are intruding on our high-end secret club, they won’t join.

The main reason we differ from other writing groups, such as the SFWA (I figure I’ll bring this up before, inevitably, someone else does), is that they have no problem with being exclusionary because sci-fi is such a vast and wide open genre, that there will always be a plethora of new writers and ideas. Furry is a VERY limited venue. I can’t imagine there are more than 500 furry writers out there that actually take their writing seriously. I don’t mean seriously as in “I’m not just putting random letters on a page so I’m serious”. I mean people that are actively trying to improve what they write and become better writers. Even if all they write is fanfiction porn.

This pretty much says a lot. I am paying attention, I am simply not being active. The guild doesn’t have to be a hopping place of constant activity 24 hrs a day, 7 days a week. It doesn’t have the structure or the people behind it to support such a thing anyway. Places like this go in ups and downs.

I’m going to ask questions even though I’m not a member because I know I’ll be a member someday and I’d like to help other members by sharing questions they might be too shy or too busy to ask.

@Sean: You plan to open the guild to non-members such as myself in a basic way to decrease the exclusionary miasma surrounding the guild. While I like this idea (Because I know I’ll belong in the guild somehow someway someday) does this mean that benefits to non-members such as mentorship will go away?

@Both: That being said, do you have any plans for mentorship programs because I see it’s a forum title but I’ve never met an actual mentor. I’d really love to be part of this program in the future when I’m a member and I’d really love to see what your plans for it are.

@Both: You have a giant to-do list. What is your most important goal for the future?

@both: As someone who is entering the time of his life when he feels confident enough to publish, I often find myself wondering how and where to go. I know there are lots of calls for submissions on the board (it has its own thread) but how will you improve the media attention of the guild and help us affiliate with furry businesses? IE. how will you put furry publishers in contact with furry writers in the future?

Mentorship was never exclusive to non members. In fact, I think at least two or three of the mentees were/are guild members.

It is a program I’d love to revitalize, but I need to rethink how to approach it. I expected there would be a lack of mentors, but the response to the program from guild members as a whole was…underwhelming, to say the least.

Out of everything I posted in my campaign announcements, I would say that the Guild Council would be the most important. That’s a huge first step in ensuring that the amount of items on my to-do list will get done.

I think the guild’s purpose in this regard is, and probably will stay, a tool to help writers get the skills and knowledge they need to seek out publishers and markets on their own. Several members of the guild don’t just submit to the furry markets, and I think that affiliating with furry publishers rather than just working with them would create an impression that the guild is only meant for writers to submit to furry markets.

Hope that answered everything!